HV Personality - Yoritomo Yoyonagi XP

	Tsuruchi Rasu wrote:
	... the ilk ...

I wish I had a card with that key word. :P

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Haiku Sensei * Penitent * Moderator Emeritus ☞∴§¶′″‰№†‡⁄≠

	wrote:
	... "That Hugh, and only Hugh, can prevent florist Friars."

Tsuruchi Kazu wrote:

	Tsuruchi Rasu wrote:
	... the ilk ...

I wish I had a card with that key word. :P

It was a lesser known promo card with half the cast of West Side Story on it in mid-snap.

Kinda like Righteous Doshin, but with much more hipster.

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Mantis Clan * Monk * Kolat * Emperor * Merchant * Capo * Naval * Experienced 2 * Cloud Sect * Thunder * Proud Papa * More traits than Moriya

"Wouldn't surprise me f***ing hobbits." -Doji Yoshie

	Tsuruchi Rasu wrote:
	It was a lesser known promo card with half the cast of West Side Story on it in mid-snap.

LoL.

Anyway, I think I've found an answer to my own question; pure flavor trait. Sometimes I have to forget about game mechanics and remember why I love L5R in the first place pirate2

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Seems that many members don't like Yoyonagi. I think it's pretty good:

She costs an SH and a Kobune Port to play, since I only buy full when I need to.
She has the first chance to move a personality home that you can "no hiding place" at your leisure.
Afterwards, she can still do Reaction and "at home" Battle Action Spells and has enough Chi to use Purge the Weak Reaction a few times.
Use Shugenjas like Euiko/Taya for your "At Battle" EHP-attach spells.
After your turn, you'll have at least one Defender.

Wakari Masen wrote:

	Tsuruchi Rasu wrote:
	It was a lesser known promo card with half the cast of West Side Story on it in mid-snap.

LoL.

Anyway, I think I've found an answer to my own question; pure flavor trait. Sometimes I have to forget about game mechanics and remember why I love L5R in the first place pirate2

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Seems that many members don't like Yoyonagi. I think it's pretty good:

She costs an SH and a Kobune Port to play, since I only buy full when I need to.
She has the first chance to move a personality home that you can "no hiding place" at your leisure.
Afterwards, she can still do Reaction and "at home" Battle Action Spells and has enough Chi to use Purge the Weak Reaction a few times.
Use Shugenjas like Euiko/Taya for your "At Battle" EHP-attach spells.
After your turn, you'll have at least one Defender.

Spending your 3g holding and your 4g stronghold on one person means you're not spending those with 2g holdings for a 7g person and an 8g person. Also you're spending 9g on a personality that won't contribute any force at resolution. You can't buy her turn 3 because you won't be able to attack the next turn if you do. By turn 6 or maybe even 5 she's no longer particularly useful since one or both of the players will be down in provinces to the point where she's not more useful than any random Mantis personality with a battle action.

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Yoyonagi Supporter * Ten Ninjas * Traveling Ronin * Straw Dogs * Successful and Ruthless Merchant Patron

How come you can't buy on T3 and attack on T4?

Best Case-

Turn 1: Secluded Village
Turn 2: Kobune Port & 2G holding
Turn 3: untapped 2G Legacy
Spend 7G on Yoyonagi, left with 8G for a peep(s)

Worst Case-

Turn 1: 2G Holding
Turn 2: 2G Holding & Kobune Port
Turn 3: untapped 2G Legacy
7G on Yoyonagi and 6G for a peep

With 2F, she wouldn't contribute much force to resolution if she stayed. She would've most likely moved a 4F peep home for her 2F. Any force bonuses could be attached to the other mantis peep at the battle. At home, she could still Castle of Water for the T4 attack to help drop the province.

Can you explain the part about how she loses her effectiveness as province count goes down?

	Wakari Masen wrote:
	Worst Case- Turn 1: 2G Holding Turn 2: 2G Holding & Kobune Port Turn 3: untapped 2G Legacy

That is most assuredly not the worst case.

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“Mine is the soul of the Mantis, I cannot know weakness, nor doubt, nor failure. So long as I admit no defeat, there can be no defeat."
-Yoritomo Kumiko

	Komori Kenshiro wrote:
	That is most assuredly not the worst case.

You're right, you could be forced to search for Legacy on T1, flip-up blank on T2, and not get any Kobune Port. I meant "Worst Case" from the typical holding results I play.

Wakari Masen wrote:

How come you can't buy on T3 and attack on T4?

Best Case-

Turn 1: Secluded Village
Turn 2: Kobune Port & 2G holding
Turn 3: untapped 2G Legacy
Spend 7G on Yoyonagi, left with 8G for a peep(s)

Worst Case-

Turn 1: 2G Holding
Turn 2: 2G Holding & Kobune Port
Turn 3: untapped 2G Legacy
7G on Yoyonagi and 6G for a peep

With 2F, she wouldn't contribute much force to resolution if she stayed. She would've most likely moved a 4F peep home for her 2F. Any force bonuses could be attached to the other mantis peep at the battle. At home, she could still Castle of Water for the T4 attack to help drop the province.

Can you explain the part about how she loses her effectiveness as province count goes down?

If you're purchasing her turn 3 instead of more people/holdings then you're hampering yourself for the rest of the game. To make up for her low force on the turn 4 attack you're going to have to spend more money on attachments, money which won't be going into holdings/personalities.

She's going to be most useful when you're attacking at 2 provinces, or defending against more than one province. On the attack you can use EHP's naval battle action at one province and her ability at the other. On the defense Yoyonagi will be most useful when she can defend a province by herself, but sending home only one person is only likely to save a province if the opponent is attacking more than one province and splitting his forces. If you're attacking only one province then EHP's naval action will likely be better, and if you're defending only one province then her ability is likely not going to be enough.

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Yoyonagi Supporter * Ten Ninjas * Traveling Ronin * Straw Dogs * Successful and Ruthless Merchant Patron

Well, at least she´s a Naval Shugenja Courtier (we finally got some Courtiers xD yey).

But even though that she´s pretty bad. Reduce the GC by 1 and add 1 PH or F, and i would really like her. But as it stands, i´d rather use any other Naval or Magistrate personality with some kind of usefull effect and lower GC.

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Battle: Naizen can lower any province strengh to zero by calling his fan-girl army

She is very strong guys, she send a entire unit without restriction to home, and you can use as first action.

OK she cost 9 gold but this are not a full problem we have to few personalities with this gold and 9 is not so bad to pay

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The Owner of This Mess

	Yoritomo Garou wrote:
	She is very strong guys, she send a entire unit without restriction to home, and you can use as first action. OK she cost 9 gold but this are not a full problem we have to few personalities with this gold and 9 is not so bad to pay

She isn't strong at all.

Sure she sends home a unit without restriction but she moves herself home as well so your providing your opponent with a Mushin where one of the actions is a send home directed at Yoyonagi. It's like giving your opponent a free removal action so he has more resources to direct at your other personality/personalities. Remember Mantis usually goes second so more often then not your going to be outnumbered to begin with.

Sure we have a few other personalities at 9GC... Etsui Exp. 2 & Isoshi. Etsui (Who I still think should have had +1 Force) has twice as much force a good battle action that doesn't remove him from the field and the spearhead trait. Isoshi has three times as much force, a marginal battle action that doesn't remove him from the field, and is non-unique.

She costs 2G more then she ought to. It doesn't seem like a lot but that two gold would likely provide you with the additional resources you need to compensate for her other shortcomings.

I'll repeat what Kilian noted in his last post in regards to her force... If you're purchasing her turn 3 instead of more people/holdings then you're hampering yourself for the rest of the game. To make up for her low force on the turn 4 attack you're going to have to spend more money on attachments, money which won't be going into holdings/personalities.

Plus, she's just lazy design. She's a clone of her basic version (Which wasn't good to begin with).

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“Mine is the soul of the Mantis, I cannot know weakness, nor doubt, nor failure. So long as I admit no defeat, there can be no defeat."
-Yoritomo Kumiko

Kilian, thank you for the detailed explanation. I get what you meant now. I suppose in my playing environment (non-tournament) playing a high gold cost peep early in the game doesn't immediately translate into an automatic resource handicap for the subsequent turns. I can see how paying for such low force early in the game could be a hindrance, even if she's moving home someone with a lot higher force than her own (the price of which your opponent paid with his own holdings).

I guess that's why I have a different approach to her force/gold ratio. She could be 1F or 3F, and she'd still accomplish what her card seems to be designed to do: move an opposing unit home and by way of the *shugenja* trait (and to a lesser extent the *courtier* trait) still be an effective "at home" battle action peep. Though as I understand it, not many Mantis use spells or shugenjas so maybe this aspect of Yoyonagi is being underscored.

Which leads to why I think it's a strength that she moves home as an effect, not a weakness. She removes a high threat unit, then gets out of harm's way from the opponent's own targetting battle actions. If she stayed at the battlefield, she'd be contributing a whopping 2F and you'd be in constant danger of losing her ability you paid so dearly for.

I feel that on a personality-by-personality basis, it's more damaging for the opponent to lose a specific unit than it is for an EHP-attach Mantis deck(unless the opponent is swarming you with several cheap peeps). Whereas the opponent loses out on the investment of a personality, it's printed abilities, and any attachments, the EHP-attach player can attach "printed abilities" onto any remaining personality and apply force bonus attachments in the same manner. I feel that the personalities for the mantis player are more expendable.

I agree that if Yoyonagi's in an army, there'd probably be better EHP-attach-action naval actions you could perform before you use her battle action. I think Kilian's right that she'd do well as the first battle action in a second army after you used your EHP-naval action elsewhere. However, if she were in a single army I think she'd serve a good purpose too:

1. She'd be an obvious target for your opponent's first battle action; meaning one of your military, high force units would be spared instead.
2. If your opponent's action merely moved her home instead of bowing/destroying you'd still have access to her at-home shugenja actions.
3. She'd be a great 2nd battle action choice if she were still alive by then.

So, the dreaded 9G cost discussion. I fully agree that there are better force-applying, pure-battle personalities in the 9G field. Actually, I think that there's enough so that having made Yoyonagi into such a peep would've been overkill. Instead, I think Yoyonagi brings a more unique change of pace to the 9G field. I'll start with the great examples that Kenshiro provided.

Tsuruchi Etsui XP2 Mantis Clan • Naval • Kolat • Experienced 2 • Unique
After a battle ends, if Etsui was at that battlefield at any time during battle resolution: Straighten all cards in his unit.
Battle: Bow a target Personality.
Force 4

Summary: Good force, spearhead trait like Kenshiro mentioned, and can bow a peep. It doesn't remove presence like Yoyonagi's move home does.

Yoritomo Isoshi Mantis Clan • Samurai • Naval
Battle: Target a unit opposing Isoshi. Abilities on cards in that unit cannot be used during this battle.
Force 6

Summary: Excellent force, plus it's non-unique. Removes ALL abilities from cards in that unit, very nice. Doesn't remove presence.

Tsuruchi Okame XP Mantis Clan • Samurai • Magistrate • Naval • Experienced • Unique
Battle: Any number of times per turn, pay 2 Gold: Give Okame +1F.
Battle: Bow Okame unless your Family Honor is greater than its starting value: Ranged Attack with strength equal to his Force.
Force 3

Summary: Average starting force, but easily bumpable at the expenditure of holdings. An un-bowed(most likely) RA with extensive killing potential.

It's all the stuff you expect for 9G Mantis peeps: your high force, bow/ability-only removing, unlimited RA kind of deal. Could we not look at Yoyonagi as a presence-removing, un-targettable, at-home battle action personality? Could we view her as an opportunity to throw our opponents off from the obvious, time-tested Mantis Uniques of the past? I just like to have some diversity; the opportunity to not be the predictable Mantis deck pirate

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	Wakari Masen wrote:
	So, the dreaded 9G cost discussion. I fully agree that there are better force-applying, pure-battle personalities in the 9G field. Actually, I think that there's enough so that having made Yoyonagi into such a peep would've been overkill.

It's not her low force that I object to... it's the low force combined with the above average gold cost. Knock her GC down by two and the only objection I'd have would be the apparent lack of originality. She'd have been just fine as a 7GC personality. Although I'd still wish that they phrased her action like Nobumoto's RA... where the "return home" aspect of the personality is an optional effect rather then cost.

Really the only way I'll ever end up using Yoyo (outside of shugenja theme decks... which arn't very good, believe me I tried) is if they print a non-unique courtier who is good enough for me to play even if it lacked the Courtier trait and even then it would only be for trait consistency.

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“Mine is the soul of the Mantis, I cannot know weakness, nor doubt, nor failure. So long as I admit no defeat, there can be no defeat."
-Yoritomo Kumiko

To tell the truth, I can think of a few combos with her. Shugenja helps a lot. So she defends alone, attaches a consumed by 5 Fires, sends a unit back. (for fun attach to her a Pincers+Tail). Play Doomed Intentions, Kill another unit. Not bad for 9G.

P.S. I only defend with Doomed Intentions at hand. Otherwise, just attack.

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Kolat tendecies * Sleeper Agent * Naval* Whateva

On the day of my return, Shaun posted this: “Welcome home, Utemaro,” Naizen said. “The Mantis Islands are pleased to receive their wayward son, the Imperial Treasurer of Rokugan.”

ok , i dont know am not realy playing a lot of tournaments now , but arent a lot of decks movement hvy? the crab action that brings in two peeps , rapid D , the samurai tireless assault and DI ? a send home for 9 gold [without bowing or is it only HM] is not that good.

	Quote:
	To tell the truth, I can think of a few combos with her. Shugenja helps a lot. So she defends alone, attaches a consumed by 5 Fires, sends a unit back. (for fun attach to her a Pincers+Tail). Play Doomed Intentions, Kill another unit. Not bad

it still doesnt bust a province and the cost of attachments is equal to two peeps. wouldnt it be wiser to attach something to tadame and just bust a province?

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